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The Third Man (Criterion Blu-ray)
This title in particular has been the subject of a good deal of controversy on Elsewhere (among other sites), message boards, and email lists across the web. No one seems to talk about much aside from the "Grain Issue." Since the grain (or overabundance thereof) is the obvious elephant in the room, I'm going to address it before getting on to the additional content on display here, of which there is much to see and thoroughly enjoy. (continued)

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Of Time and the City

Depp for Best Actor?

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It's too early and it may seem a silly notion, but it may be time for all good people to rise up and band together in order to stop Johnny Depp from winning the Best Actor Oscar for his performance in Sweeney Todd. If anyone wants to launch a website to help amplify this feeling and (who knows?) maybe nip this one in the bud, I'll contribute $100 bucks...seriously. He's the one bad guy in the bunch who, I feel, really doesn't deserve to win. Surely others feel this way?

Okay, bad joke. But there's this guy who wrote earlier today that he "believe[s] now that Depp is a 95% bet to be nominated for Best Actor as the title character in Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street in a very, very crowded field of 2007 male movie performances...and an 80% chance to win." No offense, but it kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

Obviously nobody's seen Sweeney Todd. (I saw the excellent Patti Lupone stage revival in New York least year.) Tim Burton's film could blow everyone away, and Deep might out-do his work in Edward Scissorhands...who knows? But we all know it's basically going to be another odd-baroque Burtonesque production-design trip -- lots of exaggerated leers, period atmosphere, arterial blood, white smocks, Sondheim and straight razors. Maybe there's a heart element in the stage play that I've forgotten about. I suspect the film will be mainly be about classy, high- toned, eye-catching perversity -- the imaginative world of Tim Burton's navel.

And while I realize I'm in the minority, I feel that Depp is going to have to be awfully damn good in Burton's musical to overcome the resentment effect from having starred in those three "entertaining" but infuriating Pirates of the Caribbean films. Director Gore Verbinski and producer Jerry Bruckheimer are the perpetrators, I realize, and even I was okay with Depp's japey attitude in the first installment. But Dead Man's Chest was too long and a very rough sit, and I'd be lying if I said I was looking forward to At World's End. (I can only say for sure that Keith Richards wears too much scuzzy makeup.)

All I know is that when I see Depp, I think about Cpt. Jack Sparrow and having a little touch of revenge. I don't dislike Depp at all. It's just that when I see him I think of all the money he made for the Pirates film and all the hours I've spent sitting in a theatre watching them so far, I think to myself, "A little payback might be fun." By which I mean justified.

I'm not saying anyone else feels this way. It's just me, it's only February but I'm just sayin' just for fun. It would be great if Sweeney Todd turns out wonderfully. Let's hope for that. But if it doesn't....

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Posted by Jeffrey Wells on February 28, 2007 at 5:46 PM

comment #1

dre says ...

Here we goooooooooooooooo....

Posted by dre at February 28, 2007 6:44 PM

comment #2

Josh Massey says ...

I'm not sure there is much "resentment effect" against Depp except in your world - remember, the guy was nominated for his work in the first Pirates, and all the sequel did was put a lot of money in Hollywood's pockets.

Even if you don't like Pirates, though, it's easy to look past it when you have the likes of Ed Wood, Edward Scissorhands, Donnie Brasco, Blow and What's Eating Gilbert Grape to reflect on. The guy has a ton of misfires, sure, but they're damn interesting misfires.

And you had me for a second up top.

Posted by Josh Massey at February 28, 2007 6:59 PM

comment #3

Noel Murray says ...

SWEENEY TODD isn't as emotionally rich as some of Sondheim's other musicals, but it does have heart. (The song "Pretty Women" always gets to me.) More importantly, it has brains. It's examination of evil and urban angst is brilliant and engaging, even when its elusive.

I hope to hell that Burton doesn't bury the smart stuff in camp. But he strikes me as a maturing director, ready to channel his vision through an artist stronger than he. This may be my most anticipated movie of the year--and this is a year that may see new films by the Coen Brothers and both Andersons.

Posted by Noel Murray at February 28, 2007 7:06 PM

comment #4

Noah says ...

Jeff, you're only pretending to be kidding when we all know that you really want to stop the Depp bandwagon before it starts. And honestly, aren't you judging Sweeney Todd based on what you think it's going to be? I mean, fuck, the movie isn't even close to being done shooting are you're already making assumptions about Depp's acting in it? Get off it. Poland's a moron for saying Depp is going to win the Oscar and you're being a moron for saying he doesn't deserve it (even if you claim you were only kidding). It's time to talk about the movies that are on the radar RIGHT NOW, like Zodiac which you've done a good job of championing and Black Snake Moan and maybe some other movies that aren't being talked about. It's a down time, but it's not down enough for me to want to hear about predictions of next year's Oscar race.

Posted by Noah at February 28, 2007 7:06 PM

comment #5

jeffmcm says ...

More than ever I just want to stick Wells and Poland together in the room from the first Saw movie.

Posted by jeffmcm at February 28, 2007 7:30 PM

comment #6

D.Z. says ...

I got no problems with Depp. He's one of the few teen idols I can stand. He's earned the gold with Fear and Loathing and Ed Wood, alone.

Posted by D.Z. at February 28, 2007 7:59 PM

comment #7

D.Z. says ...

I just hope Burton doesn't ruin it like he did with Sleepy Hollow.

Posted by D.Z. at February 28, 2007 8:00 PM

comment #8

jeffmcm says ...

Sleepy Hollow is Burton's best movie since Ed Wood and probably his third or fourth best film overall.

Posted by jeffmcm at February 28, 2007 8:16 PM

comment #9

D.Z. says ...

Sleepy Hollow is a horrible parody, much like the Planet of the Apes remake.

Posted by D.Z. at February 28, 2007 8:18 PM

comment #10

Gan81 says ...

I've been reading your stuff for a little over 2 years now Jeff, and this is the first time that I'v been compelled to write something so here it goes...

Jesus-fucking-Christ. Are you serious? Someone out there writes about how they think that Depp is a front runner for next year and you're already mounting a mini-attack on something that could be nothing?

And who cares that Depp is finally getting "Will Smith" money. The guy deserves it after Scissorhands, Ed Wood, Benny & Joon, Gilbert Grape, Dead Man, Donnie Brasco, Fear & Loathing, Before Night Falls, etc etc.

Posted by Gan81 at February 28, 2007 8:20 PM

comment #11

Shane says ...

It's amazing someone can make an 80% prediction about an award-winning performance when the movie just began shooting this week.

Posted by Shane at February 28, 2007 8:23 PM

comment #12

sandekat says ...

As bizarre as Poland's wierd prediction of Depp's Oscar nomination and win, your response is stranger still (which is saying something, given how positively nutso you've been lately).

I can only assume that this is a put on by both of you working in cahoots to drum up a little heat for your sites.

If so, bravo! Tres droll.

If not, you've both become self parodies.

Posted by sandekat at February 28, 2007 8:31 PM

comment #13

jeffmcm says ...

Hey D.Z., I wouldn't feel compelled to rebut your points if you would possibly make them in a less blunt, more dialogue-y manner.

Is discussion of this, or any of your other ten thousand strongly-held opinions, possible?

Posted by jeffmcm at February 28, 2007 8:37 PM

comment #14

christian says ...

jeff, you're out of fucking control.

didn't you just say that we have a hiatus of a few months before the next round of oscar masturbation?

please.

Posted by christian at February 28, 2007 8:43 PM

comment #15

erniesouchak says ...

There's a very great chance Burton will ruin Sweeney Todd. For one thing he has cast his wife, who has admitted she can't sing. For another, he's likely to make it another production-design jerkoff. I have a little more faith in Depp, because he's one of the few actors out there who pretty consistently surprises me with his choices (during performances, not choices of roles).

Posted by erniesouchak at February 28, 2007 8:51 PM

comment #16

D.Z. says ...

Sleepy Hollow took away the drama and terror of the Irving Story, and turned it into a "Hound of the Baskervilles".

Posted by D.Z. at February 28, 2007 9:06 PM

comment #17

Reedyb says ...

Depp will be nominated. He won them over with the first Pirates. He got the second nomination for the Peter Pan movie and he is bound to get a third.

He's been anointed the GREAT ACTOR of the next generation. The Brad Pitt's and George Clooney's and Tom Cruise's.

Whether he wins or not will all depend on the politics of the moment. A year ago we all would have said that Will Smith would have won for Happyness. It was a good guess.

Now stop obsessing about the Oscars and enjoy the movies of 2007!

Posted by Reedyb at February 28, 2007 9:11 PM

comment #18

jeffmcm says ...

Burton was under no obligation to make a direct adaptation of the Washington Irving story, which we've all seen before. Instead he made it his own, a visually brilliant ghost story with echoes of paternalistic guilt. I suppose if I said it was his version of a classic Hammer horror movie you'd start trashing Burton for being another Tarantinoesque ripoff artist.

The movie's weakest link is Christina Ricci, who once again proved that she can't act but at least can fill out a gown.

Posted by jeffmcm at February 28, 2007 9:18 PM

comment #19

D.Z. says ...

jeff: "Instead he made it his own, a visually brilliant ghost story with echoes of paternalistic guilt. I suppose if I said it was his version of a classic Hammer horror movie you'd start trashing Burton for being another Tarantinoesque ripoff artist."

I actually liked Burton-up until Mars Attacks. And I'm also now sure how he made Sleepy Hollow his own, since it's essentially an R-rated Gothic version of the Disney cartoon.

"The movie's weakest link is Christina Ricci, who once again proved that she can't act but at least can fill out a gown."

At least we agree on something.

Posted by D.Z. at February 28, 2007 9:32 PM

comment #20

jeffmcm says ...

"And I'm also now sure how he made Sleepy Hollow his own, since it's essentially an R-rated Gothic version of the Disney cartoon."

We don't disagree here either, since I don't think any of this is a bad thing (except that the movie should really be PG-13).

Like I said, though, this movie also has some interesting subtexts. I don't think you care, but they're present.

Posted by jeffmcm at February 28, 2007 10:11 PM

comment #21

PanTheFaun says ...

I too saw the Michael Cerveris-Patti Lupone revival last year and it was by far the greatest production of what's probably the greatest musical of all time. There's a good chance of Burton fucking it up, but for now I'll have to hope for the best.

While it's certainly not a "heart" piece, there's such a profound undercurrent of tragedy to the whole thing, which reaches the heights of devastation in its finale. There's definitely emotional resonance in there, if not exactly "heart"

Posted by PanTheFaun at February 28, 2007 10:49 PM

comment #22

goodvibe61 says ...

This is all just so much bullshit of the strangest kind.

First off, more than anything else about this posting, most obvious is the degree in which Wells's little world revolves around Poland's writings. I'm starting to think that Jeff has a pretty serious man crush on the guy, perhaps Poland's greater success online is just another of the dozens and dozens of bitter petty jealousies that Wells carries around.

Is there anything Poland writes anymore that Wells DOESN'T comment on? Hey Wells: We get it. You hit Poland's website 289 times per day. But guess what? I read Poland's site already; I don't need to come here to read Poland's site. Jesus Christ.

Second: Jeff "thinks of all that money Depp made from the Pirates movies, and all the hours I've sat watching them, and a little payback would be nice". First off, Depp has been wildly entertaining in both Pirates films. He was nominated for an Academy Award for his performance.

Add to that the striking number of fascinating chances Depp has taken in his career. Fear and Loathing. Dead Man. Ed Wood. Ed Scissorhands. Gilbert Grape. Before Night Falls. His penchant for overwraught horror is always a favorite, I love how he digs that genre. Of all the rich movie stars running around hollywood, to bash Depp simply because he's had a big success is sophomoric. It's cottonheaded. It's just plain stupid.

Sophomoric. Cottonheaded. Stupid. Wellsian.

Wells, you're a bitter asshole more often than not these days. Too often your writing has almost nothing to do with film, it's all about those inanities of yours, the twisted takes on things as seen through your crystalline clear self hatred.

I hope at some point you get some of the help you need man.

Quick, you better run back to the Hot Blog, Dave might have posted his thoughts on 2008 Sundance, you gotta come up with something to write about!

Posted by goodvibe61 at February 28, 2007 11:13 PM

comment #23

kingspiffo says ...

I'm a big Wells fan, and HE is one of the first sites I go to each day, but goodvibe61, I totally agree with everything you wrote (except for whichever bits I'll have forgotten about until I hit 'post' - so I'll say "I dsagree with that part!" in advance).

He's still better than David Poland, though.

And re: Johnny Depp, he's more than earned his right to make heaps and heaps of money. Some guys make millions of dollars per film and they haven't given one performance of the calibre that Depp has so consistently belted out for 20 years.

Posted by kingspiffo at March 1, 2007 12:38 AM

comment #24

cjKennedy says ...

First of all, that wasn't a bad joke at all Jeff. That was actually pretty fuckin' funny. Not that I'm the official barometer of comedy or anything, but I actually laughed out loud.

Second...Poland is already calling Sweeney Todd as an Oscar nominee so you can pretty much forget about its chances.

Third...I like Depp so much for Ed Wood, Edward Scissorhands, Dead Man, Donnie Brasco, Fear and Loathing, Gilbert Grape...hell, even Cry Baby and Benny & Friggin' Joon...that I don't hold Pirates against him in the slightest. In fact, it was only because of Depp that the first one was even tolerable.

Fourth...this is my impression of a guy who isn't listening to DZ argue about the various demerits of Sleepy Hollow:

...

Posted by cjKennedy at March 1, 2007 12:47 AM

comment #25

Rich S. says ...

Rich S.- "Shakespeare borrowed many of his plots from other sources."

D.Z. (commenting on Rich S. post): "Yeah, and his work comes off hackneyed as a result."

End of discussion

Posted by Rich S. at March 1, 2007 5:07 AM

comment #26

Mgmax says ...

That's like the old joke about the guy who goes to see Hamlet and finds that the dialogue is full of cliches.

Posted by Mgmax at March 1, 2007 6:47 AM

comment #27

ArchiveGuy says ...

Wells is probably the only person in the world who can take Depp's diverse, eclectic, and talented career and allow it to evaporate into the ether because of a couple films he doesn't like (though the rest of the world kinda does). I wouldn't sit through either Pirates films ever again, but they're hardly representative of "selling out" in a mercernary, screw-the-art sort of way. They're immensely popular, and for most people, he's still the best thing about them. If he makes nothing but comic book movies for the next decade, then you might have a point about any presumed "payback", but after only two films? Give me a break.

Truly pathetic.

Posted by ArchiveGuy at March 1, 2007 9:37 AM

comment #28

cjKennedy says ...

Wait, am I the only guy in the room who thought Jeff was at least 95% kidding? Especially since he quoted his opening salvo in Operation Eddie Freedom almost verbatim?

Posted by cjKennedy at March 1, 2007 9:50 AM

comment #29

christian says ...

fact is, johny depp has been fairly avoiding studio fame for most of his career. and he earned his chops. he was masterful in ED WOOD and FEAR AND LOATHING.

but d.z. is right on SLEEPY HOLLOW. one of burton's worst. gee, which one of the pasty faced white guys is the killer? it's not a friggin' mystery. and walken was ridiculous; typical burton hollywood bullshit -- the headless horseman is the good guy! the whole thing looked like it was shot in one soundstage.

that said, MARS ATTACKS is probably burton's most subversive film. terrible script but great moments.

Posted by christian at March 1, 2007 9:52 AM

comment #30

sweet_billy says ...

wells, you are such a tool.

you've written so many more pointless, insipid, catty, uninformed and flat out embarrassing columns/posts than depp has made "bad" films.

shut your stupid hole. how can you predict this when you couldn't even predict "the departed" as best picture.

god!

Posted by sweet_billy at March 1, 2007 10:21 AM

comment #31

Joshua Mooney says ...

First of all, Keef's been wearing too much makeup since the cover shoot for "Satanic Majesties" in '67. But so what? Still looks okay for a guy who's been dead sicne 1981.

Second of all, Burton just can't tell a feature-length story, which is why I'm so routinely disappointed by his work. When he did manage to do so once ("Ed Wood"), it's because he adhered closely to the screenplay.

Finally, I really like Depp. I didn't, for a long time. I used to despise him. Yet he busted his balls to break out of that teen-TV-hearthrob gulag wherein most of us expected him to languish, wither and die. Sometimes he goes too far ("Chocolat"), but I thought he was a very credible Hunter Thompson. (A contradiction in terms, perhaps, but whatever...) Depp needs to settle down with a great director (not Burton) and do something Oscar-worthy in a drama. I think he can and he will.

Posted by Joshua Mooney at March 1, 2007 10:44 AM

comment #32

T. S. Idiot says ...

A 2006 non-musical Brit TV version of Sweeney Todd, with the great Ray Winstone, appears on DVD
Apr. 10.

Posted by T. S. Idiot at March 1, 2007 12:32 PM

comment #33

royalonemn says ...

THEY JUST STARTED FILMING THE MOVIE TWO WEEKS AGO. HOW CAN YOU BE CALLING FOR A BOYCOTT OF JOHNNY DEPP'S PERFORMANCE WHEN THERE ISN'T EVEN A PERFORMANCE TO BE SEEN?
People on this site talk about the integrity of awards, but if you are criticizing a movie/performance BEFORE it has even been filmed, then you are just as bad as those who just blindly vote for someone because he/she is popular.
God, if Johnny Depp gives the best fucking performance by an actor in "Sweeny Todd" in 2007 then he deserves to win. If it's a horrible performance, he won't be nominated. But don't start smeering his performance before he even has a chance to give it.
This shit is ridiculous.

Posted by royalonemn at March 1, 2007 2:14 PM

comment #34

Cadavra says ...

Given the magnitude of both the material and the talent involved, it seems reasonable to assume this OUGHT TO BE a major awards contender. If the film ends up falling short, okay, but at least at the outset the potential is clearly there.

Posted by Cadavra at March 1, 2007 3:52 PM

comment #35

The Movie Man says ...

Johnny Depp is a very interesting, adventurous actor who hit unexpected paydirt a few years ago with a certain performance, yes, he's milking it now. He will return to great work, this I have no doubt of, but first he's taking advantage of a surge of popularity in order to make this thing called money that people use to purchase goods and services. Keep in mind, I KNOW, none of us would lower ourselves that level, never, but I thought I would take upon myself to explain this lower life form to you.

Posted by The Movie Man at March 1, 2007 5:18 PM

comment #36